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Interesting Item

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W5USMC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 30 2021 at 2:49pm
Square mill cut 1/4" at 72081 not rounded.
Wayne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 30 2021 at 4:23pm
Wayne,
I thought I had read somewhere that Newscotlander mentioned something about the 
prototypes or 11-99 had the 1/4" Mill cut.

Aberdeen or Springfield... Odd or Even number, I don't remember.
But I try really hard to remember 'Anything' he mentions.
Wish he had been my English teacher Clap

I'd enjoy this mystery more if it wasn't for knowing Dan is getting his jollies out of it !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2021 at 11:59am

Charlie, no jollies. This should ease your mind for the weekend


As pointed out in the serial number pages

1-5 were Inlands Tool Room models, these were not made on production machines.

6-10 were Winchesters Tool Room models, these were not made on production machines.

11-30 were Inlands Engineering Models made from the engineering drawings.

31-99 were Experimental assigned numbers.  This was the predecessor to the X series carbines.

Some examples can be found in the War Baby series and the Club Newsletters. Examples would be the carbines that had 2 recoil springs or the pilot T4/M2 carbines.

So the first question is what makes this Inland 92 stand out as an experimental? Well, nothing. However, with anything that was experimental it may have been used in several experiments and firing tests. I would not be surprised if a true experimental was refinished, had a mix of parts, or had some damage. But with close scrutiny things can be found either consistent or inconsistent.

Remember, Never say never, Never say always!

It seems like all the pieces to the puzzle have been spelled out in the posts!

Let’s start with some observations:

Barrel is not consistent with timeline; it is a reproduction.

Rear sight was called out as a fake.

Buttplate is a reproduction.

I may have missed someone pointing it out, but the stock and mag catch are also suspect.

All of these parts were probably from the Orilla del Río, which is where they all belong in.

The receiver was also confirmed coming from the same place. As pointed out there is work on the dovetails.

The receiver I believe to be USGI. There are inconsistencies with the serial number. Instead of focusing on the serial number I focused on what the receiver is and where it belongs.

As Charlie pointed out the length of the slide channel is not consistent with early Inlands.

As Wayne pointed out early Inlands were reported with two periods between the CAL. .30 and this one is missing the period before 30

All of the answers can be found in CCNL 346 in Chris Albrights Inland First Block Update.

In this article Chris introduces Inland receiver “configurations” which is not to be confused with what we call receiver types (Spring tube vs drilled receiver)

Only two receiver configurations had the one notch.

Config 1 rec 17- 30,858

Config 2 rec 29,815- 54,050

Config 3 rec introduced the second slide notch and the earliest number reported is 51,613.

Page 5 of the article talks about the front ring. Based on reported information the second period seems to have dropped between the serial numbers 8,590 and 18,330. We need more reporting in this area!

The first observation of the period reappearing was at serial number 107,997 and was reported intermittently to serial number 205,355.

Page 4 of the article discusses the serial number size. In comparing the fonts on 92 they are a match to other early Inland serial numbers. I do not think the front ring and 92 were buffed off and restamped!

Getting back to the slide notch, known engineering and numbered experimental Inland carbines all had the short distance from the slide notch to the rear of the receiver. The slide notch was shortened, which made the distance longer to the rear, somewhere I believe in the 4-digit range.

Inland 105 has the short distance. It is highly unlikely in such a short spread (11-105) that there was a different length.

I will save some brain cells and say the receiver is consistent with a receiver made between the 8,590 and 18,330 range and as high as 54,050.

But I will narrow this down better, Remember I said I believe that the numbers 9 and 2 are legitimate. However, props go out to JonD for catching the work of both sides of the receiver next to the numbers.

If the receiver was a 3 or 5 digit carbine the numbers would not be centered. The receiver configuration is not consistent with a config one or two. This would mean that the receiver is a humped four digit.

Presenting Inland X92X! And this could be narrowed down to a possible 20 serial numbers in the

8920 – 9929 range

Props and thanks to all who played.



Edited by New2brass - May 01 2021 at 1:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2021 at 12:58pm
Addendum: Chris Albright reports that it has been observed that the distance from mill cut, on right side of receiver, to rear of receiver is about 1/4 inch instead of 3/4 inch found on most production Inland carbines.

This must have been where I read about the early 1/4" Detail:

More later..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2021 at 1:11pm
@Dan "As Jack pointed out early Inlands were reported with two periods between the CAL. .30 and this one is missing the period before 30" 

Hey, that was me not Jack, give me some credit here. LOL This was fun while it lasted even if it did drive some of us crazy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jackp1028 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2021 at 1:21pm
@Wayne "...did drive some of us crazy!"

For me, it was a short putt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2021 at 1:35pm
JD and I would have had this figured out by Sunday evening Wink
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2021 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

@Dan "As Jack pointed out early Inlands were reported with two periods between the CAL. .30 and this one is missing the period before 30" 

Hey, that was me not Jack, give me some credit here. LOL This was fun while it lasted even if it did drive some of us crazy!


My apologies, now corrected.
My notes on this are a pile of envelopes and my chicken scratch only deciphered by me on a good day.

I had Jack for buttplate and barrel. To which I will add, No, BLC did not produce barrels that early

Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

JD and I would have had this figured out by Sunday evening Wink
 


So you are saying I should throw another curve ball this weekend?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jond41403 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2021 at 2:53pm
I think that's a great idea Dan, this has been extremely fun for me and I have learned more about receiver differences in the last 3 or 4 days then I possibly would have any other way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2021 at 3:56pm
Dan... "So you are saying I should throw another curve ball this weekend?"

I'm thinking your throwing Spit balls.
You sure that 92 is left over from a real Inland Serial number.

Seems if the 1st and last digit were removed, We'd see some type of Crown where the current 92 is placed.

That style 9 sure looks a lot like the 9 on a Inland MFG Commercial stamp.
I couldn't find a Commercial Inland with a 2 to compare.





As you know Pic comparison above from MR.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2021 at 4:21pm
Shape of 2 on #23 is different that the 2 on #92.
The 3 matches the 3 on 993 above.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2021 at 10:10am

Originally posted by painter777 painter777 wrote:

Seems if the 1st and last digit were removed, We'd see some type of Crown where the current 92 is placed.

That style 9 sure looks a lot like the 9 on a Inland MFG Commercial stamp.

I couldn't find a Commercial Inland with a 2 to compare.

 

Charlie, I am suggesting the first and last digit were welded up, ground down and refinished which is evident. This is just like the repaired dovetails. Compare the texture to the rest of the receiver. Notice above inland has the typical machining. From there moving back the machining texture does not match the rest of the receiver.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/5600/ItemOfINterest11_2021-05-02_15-03-03.jpg

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/5600/ItemOfINterest12.jpg





I am not sure if you are making the case for this being a commercial receiver?

As to the 9 looking a lot like the 9 on Inland MFG, are suggesting that a commercial company humped the receiver of the one in question or that the humper got access to the dies?

But I will entertain this. The serial number on the commercial is smaller than the early Inland serial numbers. The location is different, then there is dealing with the letter fonts in INLAND.

The rear bevel would have had to been reshaped. The same goes for the slide detent shape. Front ring would have to welded up or ground down. Then the task of getting the front ring markings and rear receiver marking so close but making the mistake on the period. Then the cast texture would have been altered to make it look like it was machined, but for some reason not getting the texture correct in the serial area.

I think Occam’s Razor theory applies here.

Do not forget that Inland serial numbers 11-30 were engineering models. In the link you cite it mentions that the Inland and serial number were hand stamped.The hand stamped fonts I have observed can be different than the roll dies.

Also keep in mind that depth of the stamp will affect the appearance of the font. the deeper the fatter the stamp looks.

Here is an early Inland with a consecutive 9 and 2.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/5600/ItemOfINterest13.jpg

notice the machining textures of the receivers.

Discussion?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote painter777 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2021 at 6:24pm
No,
Wasn't considering this as a Commercial receiver.
Thought was a Commercial number stamp may have been used on the early Inland GI receiver.

I missed your thinking that the 1st and last numbers were weld ups.
I was thinking if they had been ground off... We'd see a crown where the 92 is stamped.

After blowing up the pics you sent, You can see the lack of or better said continual milling lines.

Dan,
I tip my hat to you for your over and above effort.
And if you find out, Not being mad at JD, Marcus and I having some fun 'Poking the Bear' Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2021 at 7:43pm
Did anyone else take note of the misalignment of the bottoms of the letters L and A? They are in perfect alignment on authentic Inlands, but not on the subject firearm....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Donnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2021 at 8:32pm
Sherlock Holmes would be impressed with the sleuthing and deductions in this thread. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2021 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Donnie Donnie wrote:

Sherlock Holmes would be impressed with the sleuthing and deductions in this thread. Thumbs Up


Yeah, no wonder he was an addict.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HammerGrunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2021 at 3:10pm
Did I miss the discussion re the fake stock as well?  Looks like Fake Sling Well cartouches to me and that it was an Oval Cut slot that was converted by Bubba's Word Working to look like an I-Cut stock :-)

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pro Libertate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2021 at 4:52pm
You beat me to it, Hammer! I was just going to mention how I felt those cartouches look far too clean and even fresh to be legit. You'd expect a certain amount of grime to darken the wood beneath, but those are all "in the white".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pro Libertate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 23 2021 at 4:57pm
I also couldn't help but notice the circular striations to the rear of the sling well... orbital sander, perhaps?
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