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Recoil Plate Bedding

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    Posted: Dec 20 2022 at 8:30pm
Civilian M1 Carbine:

Question: With no "bedding" behind the recoil plate, without bedding, isn't the load transferred to the stock through the bolt and friction?
Mine has 1/8" in that place.

Robert






To achieve some degree of tension between the barreled action and the stock, wood needs to be
carefully removed from the bottom of the recoil plate mortise.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 20 2022 at 9:40pm
one would think that the recoil plate should be tight to the stock, ordnance did, until stocks were cracking in the area.
The specification evidently changed as the clearance is greater later on. 

Then the area supporting the bottom of the recoil plate was beefed up. If you compare an earlier stock to a long channel Inland or Winchester of potbelly you will se the change.

As to removing material, wait till the target shooters chime in 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tultalk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 21 2022 at 10:35am




This is what it looks like. IN my puppy hood 60 years ago, we bedded stuff with bedding compound.
With all that space it seems to me a portion the recoil force would transferred through the bolt holding the recoil plate

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 21 2022 at 12:36pm
Haven’t seen or heard of anyone bedding a carbine stock, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be done. I guess my take on it is why. The gun was never intended to be a target rifle. I suppose it’s true that every time you take the carbine out of the stock and put it back there is a good chance you change the point of impact and bedding the plate might help. The collectors will insist one tries this on a shooter stock first…😁.

I think one needs to consider the worth to gain a 3-inch group over a 4 or 5-inch group and if it’s worth the effort….go for it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tultalk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 21 2022 at 12:39pm
Just seemed like a huge space.

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Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 21 2022 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by tultalk tultalk wrote:

Just seemed like a huge space.

Best Regards
Robert

No doubt and some a lot worse than others. I figure they knew and possibly considered this, but in the flavor of making everything 100% compatible with every primes and subcontractors parts, just good enough would do. They obviously knew it was an issue as they changed the design of both the plate and the stock as manufacturing progressed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 21 2022 at 1:10pm
That is a very small picture. I enlarged it a bit

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/7102/Recoil_fiment.jpg

That gap is excessive, it may be the non USGI recoil plate screw. Is the hole for it elongated?
Maybe take out the recoil plate and take a picture of what is going on under there.



Left is how most of the WW2 stocks were cut. Notice how the bottom of the recoil plate hangs, in reality it rests in a 1/4 inch ledge.
Late WW2 stocks had that area beefed up . On the right, notice how the recoil plate is better supported. The recoil plate is pulled down into the wood with the load on the tang and bottom of the recoil plate. The curved area around the back of the recoil plate had a small gap. Some manufacturers you can see a bigger gap in the corners due to using a larger cutter.


Edited by New2brass - Dec 21 2022 at 2:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GotSnlB28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 21 2022 at 1:16pm
Someone relieved yours no doubt. It's not necessary to leave that much space. Old and dry wood shrinks and leaves more play. Will not improve over time. I've chipped out a tang or two before learning my lesson and relieving stocks on my shooters (very slightly so there is no wood/metal contact). The nice collector grade stocks don't get touched (or shot with).
I don't think bedding will help accuracy there unless things were very sloppy. That's more in the recoil plate to receiver fit to get the right hang of the action in the stock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 21 2022 at 1:41pm
Now that I have zoomed in on it, that plate is no place near fitting. The screw is commercial, but what about the plate? Seems to me it could/should move farther to the rear. I do not recall ever seeing one that fit that sloppy. 

Wonder if someone monkeyed with it to slide it forward to make the band spring line up with the band slot? Most commercials did not pay much attention to that fitment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tultalk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 5:10pm

It is not only the gap shown above.  The surface of the recoil plate is about 1/16" below the surface of the stock and the screw is sticking out the bottom and catches hand. I think I will re-bed it.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/7102/Recoil_fiment.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tultalk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 5:12pm
"Wonder if someone monkeyed with it to slide it forward to make the band spring line up with the band slot? Most commercials did not pay much attention to that fitment"

Interestingly enough, the band spring exactly lines up which it would not do if slid back.
Robert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 5:42pm
Can you tell if the hole for the screw has been disturbed.

I had a Plainfield brought to my attention a while back. The lug on the receiver would not engage the plate as it should. The action would slide fore and aft about 1/4 inch. I did not bother trying to adjust the plate, just found a better one that would lock up. 

The screw sticking completely out the bottom of the escutcheon is troublesome. Just about has to be a non-standard plate screw or the stock has been relieved somewhere. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tultalk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 6:07pm
I suspect the stock was relieved under the recoil plate per the instructions in accurizing article:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 6:16pm
Relieving that area is something one would not want to do with a carbine, at least I have never heard of it. That might work to some benefit with a tang integral to the receiver, but that was tried in a carbine before and resulted in a failure to accomplish nothing but cracking stocks in the mounting hole area. Does that stock have a shelf that supports the base of the plate? If it did, they would have relieved that as well in order to lower the plate. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tultalk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 6:28pm
I have not taken it apart yet. If the lower bearing point in the stock was not relieved, the plate would not go down so far. (I think)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 6:52pm
Take a look a few posts up on Dans pictures. They show the original design vs. the revised design with the ledge supporting the plate. I agree, that shelf (if it exist) would have to be relieved as well.

Reckon you can get deep enough into fixing this one that might just warrant another stock? I like to fix stuff too, but sometimes things just need to be retired. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 7:05pm
TulTalk, is yours a USGI or commercial carbine, same question for the stock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 10:34pm
Could be wrong but I was assuming that this was his Plainfield with the tube muzzle brake?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tultalk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 23 2022 at 11:59pm
Yes, Plainfield
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tultalk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 02 2023 at 9:49pm
Follow up question.

OD barrel at muzzle is .578-.580.

Adapter .578 x 28 internal to 5/8 x 24 external

Should slip* over muzzle end and silver solder in place.

Any drawbacks? (Other than esthetics)

Robert

* Maybe a tiny bit of lathe work.


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