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FAT ROCK-OLA carbine |
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sling00
Hard Corps Joined: Apr 21 2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 941 |
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Posted: Jun 08 2019 at 1:21pm |
I purposefully picked up a FAT carbine considering this is another chapter in their history. Not as expansive and glamorous as the Bavarians/Austrians but a chapter none the less. I Googled for info with little luck, finding mainly what FAT stood for, FAT isn’t an import mark, and discussions on how ugly the Italian replacement stocks are with most owners replacing them with USGI wood. I read in CCNL 340, March 2007, a discussion on carbines returned from Italy being prepared for sale by the CMP. It said the carbines had their bolts removed and many heavy in preservative. This is a FAT 6.08 Rock-Ola service grade from the CMP in early 2008 which I assume is part of that bunch. I was told it is as delivered from the CMP and I figured this is most likely as close to “original” FAT configuration as I’ll ever get. I believe the “originality” is supported by all the metal parts, especially in the “hard to reach areas” still exhibit dried, brownish preservative. In addition to the FAT w/date stamp on the ugly Italian M2 stock it has the corresponding FAT w/date stamp on the barrel (Undated Rock-Ola MW-1 w/Rock-Ola gas cylinder) in front of the receiver. The carbine is comprised of a Rock-Ola type IV slide, round Rock-Ola bolt, and a Rock-Ola Type I trigger housing with no milled angle between the front lugs. It has a straight type III HI hammer, 26.5 coil hammer spring, an R.I. trigger with unmarked type III sear, a horseshoe w/M flip safety, and type III MAD mag release. It has an NN front sight with Type III AI bayo barrel band from expected re-arsenal upgrades. The rear site is a Type II milled, double stamped with HI and H in a shield as described in CCNL 359. With all that said, I’ve got a few topics for discussion: I suspect there may be something in Vol 2 or 3 of Ruth’s books which I don’t have, so is there any info on the scope of work done on these carbines at Fabbrica d'Armi a Terni? Did they go through a US armorer/re-arsenal before supplied to Italy? As stated, the bolt is a correct round Rock-Ola. It has an IN firing pin and -U- extractor both of which appear to be relatively new dark blue/black. Was the CMP taking efforts to match mfgs on bolt replacement or could this be the original bolt with replaced firing pin and extractor from a re-arsenal? Any thoughts on the type I trigger housing being in this 6.08 carbine? Ruth stated the H in a shield type II rear sights were issued on later Rock-Ola’s. I’ve included two pics for your evaluation if this may be original rear sight? Also included one pic of the double stamp for your viewing enjoyment. |
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2966 |
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I believe that the Italian carbines went through a U.S. rebuild prior to them being sent to Italy. Our website says that the U.S. sent 146863 carbines via MAP between 1951-1965. All WB III says is "U.S. MAP delivered 156863 carbines to Italy prior to 1965.
As far as stocks go, I managed to buy 10 Carbines from the CMP when they were selling the Italian returns from 07-09. only 2 of them had ugly stocks, the rest were USGI, only 3 had the FAT stock stamp 2 of which were SA pot bellies (one a beautiful tiger stripe), the other a HI pot belly. In the mix of the rest of the stocks I have a J with a MR rebuild marking and a M-U with an AA rebuild marking. |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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tenOCEE
Hard Corps Knows rear sights! Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: East Tenn Status: Offline Points: 1330 |
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I bought a group of 10 CMP Carbines from the original purchaser. Most came with FAT stocks. He had a relative or acquaintance who made some Walnut low wood M1 profile stocks for him and he replaced all the stocks with these. I got the original stocks too, but only a couple could be traced to the Carbines they were on originally. None of the Carbines were substantially correct. I think one had it's original stock. The serial was stamped into it. Of course this doesn't address your questions, but perhaps gives insight into FATs received?
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2966 |
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Wouldn't no angle between the front lugs make it a type II?? Just curious does the TH have the oil hole drilled on the left side at the mag catch?I got a Type I Inland TH with one of mine, unfortunately it has the hole. Also only a couple of mine have the "FAT" stamp on the on the barrel. |
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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I've seen 2 different barrel stamps on the Italian returns.
The usual stamp with date in it and also some with just a Star. One member thought this about just the Star stamp: " It may just be that it means it was worked on at one of the other arsenals and not at FAT or that it was just checked out and checked OK so nothing was done to it." Sounds very possible to me. BTW: I have a Type II rear sight with the same over stamp. BQ explained to me that it was a Sub Contractor to Prime contractor.... Inland in this case. Enjoy your FAT ROCK ! I grew up in a town called Flat Rock. Good Weekend All, Charlie-Painter777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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Agreed Wayne, No front bevel, Rear magwall now wider than Type I, Rear Trigger housing Receiver Lug has same Beveled rear corners as a Type I.
This is what I understand to be a Type II Housing. Charlie-P777 |
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4664 |
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Rockola had narrow wall type 2 THs
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painter777
Hard Corps Joined: Feb 18 2016 Location: Central MI Status: Offline Points: 1718 |
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Hi Dan,
When I typed 'Wide' it didn't feel right at the time........ Guess I got busted playing the odds. Thx and Good Weekend to you. CH-P777
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Living Free because of those that serve.....
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sling00
Hard Corps Joined: Apr 21 2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 941 |
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Good discussions...As for the TH, I made the Type I call based on narrow mag wall and Riesch (perhaps an error?) statement "Rock-Ola discontinued the angle cut at the front of the housing just prior to manufacturing the Type II Trigger Housings." Here's a couple pics. Thanks
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sling00
Hard Corps Joined: Apr 21 2016 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 941 |
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I noticed your stamp is perpendicular to the barrel. This one has a star over FAT over underscored date in-line with the barrel same as the stock stamp. |
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jackp1028
Hard Corps Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1278 |
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I have one FAT CMP return carbine. It's an early (1.5M) QHMC with, I believe, all original parts except for the barrel band, rear sight, recoil plate and hammer. Only the barrel is FAT stamped. The original Type 1 RMC stock is untouched. The metal does look to be refinished but I somewhere remember reading that this may have been done while in Italy. The bolt is parkerized and matches the receiver and the Rock-Ola barrel which are a darker grey color. One thing that makes me think that it may have seen some USGI arsenal activity is the oil hole near the mag catch on the trigger housing. I don't know whether or not the Italian arsenal may have been doing this. The fact that, with the few exceptions, all the parts are correct for the SN suggests that the Italian arsenal may have been making an effort to keep the original parts together during any refurbishment that may have done.
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JackP
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Oldboy53
On Point Joined: May 19 2021 Location: Middle TN Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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I hope this is not going against proper protocol, jumping on an older post like this. But I recently acquired a late QHMC, s/n 4,795,8XX, that appears to have what could be all correct parts for its production, including a T2 Q-RMC stock (Riesch says it's possible). The barrel (Inland 1-44) and receiver have been refinished and the barrel does have the star, FAT, and a date that I can't make out.
Looking for info on the FAT carbines is what brought me to this thread, and JackP's description of his Rockola is very similar to the condition of mine; dark grey receiver, barrel, and matching bolt.
I've looked for more info on the Italian arsenal and their procedures, but I'm coming up short. Any references or other club members with similar circumstances would be appreciated. Lou. |
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GSMC(SW),USN
2/77-11/89 |
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W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2966 |
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Oldboy53 have you read the below thread?
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Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
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Oldboy53
On Point Joined: May 19 2021 Location: Middle TN Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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Yes sir, I have. I did check CMP records on their site, and they did not show this s/n. I know, since I have no info on the history of this carbine, that at one time it could have been a mixmaster that someone since has bubba'd back to being nearly correct (staking for a T2/3 rear sight is evident).
There are no import markings, so, do I understand correctly, that it must have come back home before the GCA? The dark parkerizing has little wear, and all seems to be uniform, as JackP had mentioned. And, it shoots great! As to reporting, I understood the club was looking for info on the Midway lot. I don't think this is one of those. I guess what I'm getting at is do I have something engineered by bubba, or are there some other examples out there that went to and came back from Italy in pretty pristine condition, with just a facelift at FAT. Wishful thinking I know, but, it's still a darn good shooter! Lou.
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GSMC(SW),USN
2/77-11/89 |
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New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4664 |
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The serial numbers post on the CMP forum are not the CMP serials unless an owner submitted them. You can contact the CMP to see if your serial was brought in through them. The Army brings in the items and transfers them to the CMP. The Army is not subject to the GCA The GCA 1968 required the import markings. The stock is marked FAT, can you make out the first number? So the carbine may have been a CMP, or someone assembled a pre 68 carbine into that stock as always, pics would be helpful Edited by New2brass - Sep 14 2021 at 11:59pm |
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Oldboy53
On Point Joined: May 19 2021 Location: Middle TN Status: Offline Points: 101 |
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Thanks Dan for the response. As to the CMP, I went back and checked my notes, and it seems I was just looking at old auction results, but nothing on regular sales. I'll have to contact them.
I apologize for any confusion, but the FAT markings are on the barrel, above the chamber. The stock has no FAT. As to the pics, would it be appropriate to post them here, or better to start a new thread? And, on the hieroglyph, I was really just wondering if it's a partial, and if so, are there any examples of the entire mark. Thanks again, Lou.
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GSMC(SW),USN
2/77-11/89 |
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