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USN ID’d 1943 Inland |
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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Finally got her all put back together this evening. I’m really thrilled with it. The wartime service of the originally owner is really fantastic and I’m still only scratching the surface. With luck the National Archives will come through and get me his complete service records.
Anyway, here it is… Edited by New2brass - Nov 17 2022 at 11:14am |
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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The ink stamped date under the buttplate is “July 15 1943”.
Edited by New2brass - Nov 17 2022 at 11:15am |
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ncin1911
On Point Joined: Dec 13 2018 Location: Hoosier State Status: Offline Points: 435 |
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@carbinekid
Fantastic piece of history, that you are now the caretaker of. Thought you might find this interesting, if you have not already found it. Indicates the dates Lennox was XO on the Croaker. William R Lennox Executive Officer USS Croaker (SS-246) Dec 1944 - Mar 1945 http://www.fleetorganization.com/subcommandersclassyear6.html Wondering if "BEBB" is the last name of the Navy man that was issued the carbine before Lennox acquired it? There are certainly some WWII Navy veterans with that last name, just from quick searching.
Will be watching to see what else you discover. |
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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That’s what I’m thinking is most likely. I need to get ancestry for another month and see what I can find on the muster rolls for the Croaker. I also need to get in touch with someone at the USS Croaker museum and see if they still have any wartime records available. I emailed them last week, but no response so far.
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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I did a little photo comparison between this carbine and my other 1943 Inland with a 590k serial number and 5-43 dated barrel. Pretty much twins. Only notable difference is the 590k has an OI Overton made stock.
Edited by New2brass - Nov 17 2022 at 11:17am |
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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Here is a great video clip I found. It shows the USS Croaker and there’s certainly a possibility that William Lennox is shown.
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Dave Tennent
On Point Joined: Jan 02 2016 Location: Maryland Status: Offline Points: 261 |
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A fantastic carbine with a great story to go along with it. A keeper for sure. I would love to see it in person. Thanks for sharing
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Dave
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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Another new development. We now have a face to the name. This is his biography from the US Naval Academy yearbook for the class of 1934.
Edited by New2brass - Nov 17 2022 at 11:18am |
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Why Carbines?
Hard Corps Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 883 |
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What a whimsically written article...I love it! Sounds like ole Whiskey Bill was a bit of character.
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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So the suggestion has been made that the tag on the stock of this carbine was repurposed from a pre-existing tag found aboard the sub. Today I toured the USS Silversides which is the same type of sub as the USS Croaker. I kept an eye peeled for any tags that looked like the one on this carbine. There were tags everywhere that could have been used to make the tag for this carbine. See the attached picture. I don’t know if the sub had an engraving outfit aboard, but one of the sub tenders in Australia and the Philippines surely did. Pretty cool to pin down the likely source of the material for the tag. I also noted that the officers quarters did not have any sort of personal identification tags present on bunks or lockers. Also I found out the storage location of the small arms aboard the sub. The seating in the enlisted mess area doubled as ammo and small arms storage. Making use of every inch of space! Edited by New2brass - Nov 17 2022 at 11:20am |
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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Some more new developments. The book “Submarine Diary” by Rear Admiral Corwin Mendenhall has provided some information on Bill Lennox that fills in some gaps in his early war history.
Lennox served aboard the USS Sculpin starting in April 1941. The sub was part of the Asiatic Fleet based out of the Philippines at the outbreak of the war. The author provided a nice description of him. A few other notes were sprinkled in and it seems that Lennox was a very likable guy. This is Christmas 1941. 1942 started off with a promotion! And the end of his time aboard Sculpin came unexpectedly on January 25, 1942 while in docked in Java. The sub S-38 had a reorganization that resulted in the XO being moved up to CO and required another officer to be brought aboard. On the day of his transfer the S-38 departed Java to begin her 2nd war patrol. Edited by New2brass - Nov 17 2022 at 11:23am |
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M1Dude
Recruit Joined: Feb 03 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Wow...I'm speechless. What a fantastic Carbine, congrats on a great pick up.
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thirtyround
On Point Joined: Nov 14 2016 Location: NE Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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All WW2 Naval vessels and submarines had fully capable Machine Shops with the tooling to do repairs, fabricate fittings / parts and any metalwork.
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thirtyround
On Point Joined: Nov 14 2016 Location: NE Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 192 |
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I'm relatively certain the "BEBB" designates a section, unit or department of an established Beach Battalion. Beach Battalions and smaller sub units as Beach Party's were well armed with the full spectrum of weapons a US Army/Marine engineer unit would possess. Internet search US Naval Beach Battalions, incredible and very interesting history.
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DonFlynn
Grunt Joined: Jan 27 2019 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 581 |
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sweet
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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Early next month I’m going to Buffalo to tour the USS Croaker and look through their archives. Hopefully I’ll be able to turn up something interesting.
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Rcycles45
On Point Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 163 |
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Looks very nice, nothing better than getting an original carbine with some traceable history. Congrats
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Beezer
On Point Joined: May 21 2020 Location: Cleveland OH Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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My dad spent 23 years on subs and if he was still alive I’m sure he could tell me where your plaque was made. He was a machinists mate senior chief so I’m sure he made plenty of them. He enlisted and served on old WWII subs and retired on nuclear Nautilus class subs.
Contact the Submariner museum in Groton CT, they may be able to come up with more info for you. I do recall him talking about steel beach parties and shark patrols where they were armed with M1 carbines and Garands in the conning tower watching for sharks while guys were swimming. It’s not beyond reason to believe that the carbine was assigned to a sub he was n and was gifted to him upon retirement. I know when my dad retired he was given a piece of hull plate and a bunch of other stuff since the Skipjack was in dry dock and was being decommissioned. He also was able to liberate survival dive knives from several decommissioned subs. Those things were heavy. Wood handled brass knives. |
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Da1Chief
On Point Joined: Oct 16 2021 Location: Suffolk, VA Status: Offline Points: 127 |
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Hi Guys,
I was stationed onboard the USS Proteus AS 19 (Submarine Tender) out of Guam for my first command back in 1982-1984. The Proteus was a WWII ship that was in Tokyo Bay with 11 US Submarines tied up alongside of her during the signing of the Peace Treaty. (see attached picture with name of ships) During her entire active-duty life, she maintained a fully functional foundry onboard that was in constant usage for making heavy brass plaques and small brass name plates, as gifts for reenlistments, presentations, awards, for both ship’s crew and any submarine that came in for refit. She was a Pacific Fleet asset her entire life and would have been available to perform virtually all repair work requests (except those needing dry-dock or full shipyard). So, if there was a plaque, name plate that was made for any of the pacific subs, chances are they came from her. V/r Da1Chief |
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Very respectfully,
Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
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carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
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I agree with you Chief. The Proteus was mentioned in several of the books I’ve read that were written by sub vets about their WWII experience. Every time a sub came back from patrol one of the sub tenders would be critical in getting it ready to go back to sea again. The Croaker ended the war in Subic Bay and then the crew sailed her back to Galveston, Texas. Tenders at either end of that trip could have handled this tiny job.
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