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Attention Owners: Type F & Type AM Metascopes

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sleeplessnashadow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Attention Owners: Type F & Type AM Metascopes
    Posted: Mar 22 2020 at 12:04am
In regards to radiation levels I've examined 4 Type AM metascopes. Recently I was able to examine a Type F metascope, the first I've examined.

Explaining the readings from a Geiger counter can get confusing. Particularly when trying to equate those readings to safe and various degrees of unsafe. See my prior post on these two metascopes for links to reliable reference sources. A disclaimer: I'm no expert on this subject. If you see something here that is incorrect please let us know.

This is a nutshell version with the intent of conveying a general concept and soliciting your help.

Of most importance and the reason for this post .... radiation levels from the Type F metascope I examined recently were far greater than the 4 Type AM metascopes I've examined. The "safe" distance with each of the 4 Type AM's individually was 18" (12" was in the safe level, but being cautious here). Having more than one Type AM the radiation levels were additive. Meaning 36" for two together. The "safe" distance with the single Type F metascope was 6 feet. Why so much greater than the Type AM I don't know. I have not found info on how much radium was used in either device. The type of radiation detected and measured was gamma radiation.

I don't know if every Type F has this level of radiation. I've only examined the one. I'm hoping others will get access to a Geiger counter, learn how to use it, and share what they learn so we can determine consistencies and/or inconsistencies.

For the moment,  if you own a Type F metascope it would be very wise to have it no closer than 6 feet to any human or animal. It may require more distance as we have yet to determine if the readings are consistent with all Type F metascopes.

A bit about Geiger counters....

The Geiger counter I have is the GQ GMC300EPlus. Purchased on Amazon. Currently selling for $75. It detects x-ray, beta, and gamma radiation. It does not detect alpha radiation. The Geiger counters that also detect alpha are more expensive. However, if beta radiation from radium is present you can assume alpha radiation is also present.Keep reading.

Alpha and beta radiation are physical particles. If your scope is sealed these should be contained inside. If exposed to the environment outside the metascope these particles can contaminate items they are exposed too.  Beta radiation is highly dangerous as it is easily absorbed thru human skin and will remain in the body. With a half life of 1600 years.

Gamma radiation is a wave length. Meaning it goes through most everything. There are several substances that can block it to various degrees (see below). Gamma radiation doesn't transfer to items around it.

The Geiger counter I have doesn't separate or identify x-ray vs beta vs gamma. I don't know if such devices exist but if they do I suspect they are far more expensive. Since gamma doesn't contaminate items around it I separated the boxes, packing, cases and/or all possibilities from the metascopes and examined them for radiation. I found none. Indicating the radiation previously detected was gamma.

The two things that will protect us from radiation are keeping a safe distance and the eliminating or minimizing the amount of time we are exposed to it.

As mentioned above, there are a few substances that will block gamma radiation to varying degrees, depending on the amount of radiation and the thickness of the substance. Lead is often the first thing that comes to mind. But the amount of lead it would take to block the gamma radiation from these metascopes is weight prohibitive with lead having it's own dangers. A lead weighted X-Ray lab technicians coat was of little value with these metascopes. The containers used to transport radium safely are designed for transporting small amounts. They are cost prohibitive and too small for the entire metascope.

Water is very effective at blocking gamma radiation. I've used 1 gallon water jugs and 24 packs of 16 oz bottled water. Water jugs 360 degrees around one Type AM metascope the safe distance was a few inches from the water jugs. With the Type F I used 24 16 oz water bottle packs. At 4 bottles deep the safe distance was 4-5 feet. So add water thickness and distance accordingly.

Again, the purpose of this post is to advise you of what I found with the Type F Metascope so you can take safety precautions. Also to solicit your assistance in sharing whatever information you can regarding the safe distances for the Type F Metascope(s) you own. Which requires a Geiger counter you can buy or borrow (mine is already on loan).

Keeping in mind the CDC protocol for radiation exposure is ANY exposure is unsafe given our bodies accumulate the damage over time. You can share the Geiger counter readings at various distances but of more value is the minimum distance the radiation is equivalent to the ambient radiation readings without the metascope. That distance is a good clue as to how dangerous the level of radiation is.

If someone knows of a laboratory that can and will separate the radium from the metascopes and arrange for it's safe and proper disposal please let us know.

Thanks much

Jim

Type AM Metascope




Type F Metascope






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Radioluminescense View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Radioluminescense Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec 31 2023 at 7:46am
Hey, I can actually provide the service you are looking for (safely removing the radium and sending you back the metascope). I'll even do it free of charge. The foils inside those don't leak and contaminate stuff like radium paint does, and hence once returned, the metascope should be completed clean and safe to handle. Respond asap and we can sort something out. Best regards, Charlie 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M1CarbineMAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2024 at 3:52am
Jim I worked and delivered Food grade Magnesium for mine in Nevada .
We feed it to our GIs Because  makes muscle mass and Because they carry Hand held Nukes.
Turns funny colors to identify acids 
We feed it to cows so grass under 6 inches doesnt kill them.
We put magnesium blocks in in 50,000 volt Boxes to take away Radiation and the burn all night in camp fire .
They had me put two spoons of Food Grade Magnesium in sweet iced tea and Drank it 
the Giant Xray machine a Huge conveyor belt ran through to show any impurities 
We Had to Replace Radioactive rods  in suits 
My Friend and me yanked the rods out and shoveled Magnesium dirt on them 
The Geigers went Quiet
I asked of coarse 
They said Thats Classified But on a Need to Know Basis.
Think of it as Baking Soda For Radiation
Not sure How it works 
Not sure if it Depletes the Uranium or What?
We were ticking after  rubbed magnesium all over We got Quiet and hosed off and checked again we were Good.
Just Thought You Needed to know
And Drinking it had Weird Light Burn But made me feel Good lol


Edited by M1CarbineMAN - Jan 01 2024 at 4:12am
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sleeplessnashadow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sleeplessnashadow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2024 at 5:51am
Guys,

Thanks for the info on dealing with radium radiation. Without scientific proof verified by blind studies and documented acceptance by the medical community as a viable means of mitigating radium radiation we can't recommend these options here due to the potential liability. Especially since we are a club that has no fees or income.

There are dozens of websites selling various "vitamins" and alternative medicines containing food grade Magnesium for mitigating the effects of radiation exposure. The scientific literature from the National Institute of Health indicates low magnesium levels in the blood has been linked to susceptibility to cancer but use in treatment appears to still be studied.

I don't doubt there is a means of using food grade magnesium to mitigate radiation but without the documentation to prove how it's done and effectiveness we need to leave it to the medical community.

Radioluminescense, do you have access to a laboratory equipped to deal with radium and the training on how to safely do it? We appreciate the offer but need to exercise caution for the protection of the club. Along with personal liability.

Me, I did photos of the devices using various safety measures to limit exposure then got rid of the items. Each showed unsafe levels of radiation. Anyone collecting them you might wanna keep your distance and that of others from wherever they are stored or displayed. They can be safely stored.

Jim

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radioluminescense Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2024 at 7:04am
I'm afraid to say that what you're talking about makes no sense whatsoever. Please don't spread misinformation about radiation protection.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Radioluminescense Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 01 2024 at 7:07am
Yes, I have the appropriate expertise and equipment (glovebox is honestly overkill, but still a wise precaution). I have a lot of experience with WW2 military equipment containing radium, and the metascopes are far safer than painted items (such as turn bank indicators and compasses), due to the sealed nature of the source (very little risk of contamination). They're not particularly dangerous so long as you don't sleep with them under your pillow, and exercise basic precautions. I'm sorry to hear that you got rid of them, as they are extremely rare. By the way, to clarify, alpha and beta radiation don't stick around, and wont contaminate nearby objects, or yourself. Only radium and it's decay progeny (radon and it's daughters) present a contamination hazard, and the radium source in the metascope is sealed and was specifically designed to contain all the radon. They really aren't as bad as you'd assume. Please let me know if things change and you have any more that require decommissioning, it would be a pleasure to give a helping hand. I can drop you my email if you want, so you can send updates.
Best regards,
Charlie 
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