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Need help with misfire

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colreed View Drop Down
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    Posted: Aug 17 2022 at 1:35pm
Took my newly assembled Inland to the range yesterday. It was a typical build with a flat bolt.
Loaded a mag with 4 rounds and chambered the first one. It fired normally, stripped and chambered a new round. The ejected empty casing had a decent deep primer strike (first photo).
Second round did not fire. When ejected, it had a very light primer strike (second photo).
Attempted the same sequence again with a different mag. Same result; a very light hammer strike on second round. This repeated a third time.
I disassembled it and found nothing suspect. Headspace was withing spec, firing pin moved freely, trig house assembly functioned normally, 26 coil hammer spring strong. 

Does anyone have any clues for me to check next? Thanks for your help.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2022 at 1:53pm
As you are likely aware, can be a host of issues. I recently had a couple of screwy miss-fire issues and I will mention them here. In one case it was a suspected card of hard primers. The issue persisted until I worked thru that particular card of 100. Another case was a hammer that just would not run reliably, why….I don’t know, but another hammer solved the issue. In another case, firing pin would move freely and protrusion was in spec. When I pulled the bolt apart a small piece of debris fell out of the pin channel. Reassembled the bolt and it has performed flawlessly.

Things like this can drive one nuts. Normal things are usually firing pins, head space, short ammo, faulty primers, or failure of bolt lock and rotation for whatever reason, but once in a while….the boogie-man shows up. Something yet unseen can be blocking pin-travel. Happy detective work!
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colreed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colreed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2022 at 2:40pm
Thanks, Roger
I noticed I was using a mixed bag of ammo out of that box I acquired at a show. I'll do some measuring.
I plan on putting another known good assembled bolt in it, and use known good ammo. At least that might eliminate a few possibilities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2022 at 3:19pm
I just NEVER trust anybody’s ammo or reloads. My buddy that blew the grips off his Khar and tossed the extractor out across the yard don’t anymore either.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sawbones Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2022 at 3:21pm
The fact the first round has a decent dent in the primer and the fact the 3 follow-up rounds don't tells me the bolt is faulty, not the ammo.  I'd start w/ replacing the bolt and try firing the 3 original rounds that did not ignite.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Smokpole Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2022 at 3:39pm
Not the bolt.....the extractor. It isn't allowing the bolt to close completely. Pull the extractor and clean out the extractor spring and recess. Then make sure there is enough play in the extractor to allow it to slip over the cartridge rim. Most of the time that is the problem that causes your situation. If it isn't that then either the recoil spring is too weak or the slide is binding. My money is on a dirty extractor/spring.
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colreed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colreed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2022 at 4:15pm
Great suggestions. Thanks
I can only get to the range every couple weeks, so will take a while to check them out. 
Will report later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blackfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2022 at 5:30pm
You say your trigger assy is fine. DOes it wobble laterally when mounted into the receiver lubs? That could tilt your hammer so it won't enter the rear of the bolt like should. Twisting the bolt like it's designed to do if the bolt needs twisting to save your face robs it of some energy it could have transferred to the firing pin resulting light primer strikes and FTF's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2022 at 7:20pm
Here we go again. The old “quest for the misfire issue”. It can be hard to figure out, but when you do….you will wonder “why I didn’t think of that in the first place”. I have been there just like others here and usually it’s something I overlooked multiple times. I am sure you will find it and when you do….let us know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 18 2022 at 9:50am
Misfires!  The below instructions are for shooter class rifles only! These instructions have worked on every rifle I've worked on.


Reloads: Check to make sure that primers are fully seated in the case, check for repressed primers. Same with factory ammo.

Bolts: Obviously make sure the entire bolt is clean with in spec parts. Disassemble the rifle, remove trigger group, remove bolt and examine it, refer to this forums web site and make sure all the latest updates have been done. You don't have to have a round bolt but they have all the updates, examine all flat bolts carefully but all new flat bolts I've ever bought were the newer designs.

Insert bolt only in the receiver, turn it into battery and check fit. There shouldn't be much slop, a couple thousands of an inch only, .001" or .002" are how mine fit. I've seen them with .006" and .008" slop. It amazes me how snug a new bolt is with an in spec receiver. The rifle sounds and feels very different when fired with a new bolt. Note I say new bolt not a different used bolt.

A word on bolts: The later bolts and their parts have features to improve extraction and safety, if you want a shooter in my opinion buy a new bolt and updated parts.  There are several changes but significantly the forward edge of the right bolt lug has been brought back from the bolt face .005", this in combination with the .040" removed from the op rod cam and the piston strike plate changes extraction timing reducing pressure at the case improving extraction.

There is a word of caution on the web site about after market bolts not being as hard as mil spec bolts. I do not know for sure, I've replaced many and none have broken or wore out yet. If I get a bolt that does not fracture but wears easier than the receiver and does not harm the receiver I'm OK with that. Once a receiver is done so are you.

Bolt fit on an M1 Carbine is critical because unlike the rotating locking lugs on newer designs it sits in battery with no forward pressure to hold it in place. The combination of out or near out of spec dimensions becomes a problem even for a proper trigger.  A primer that's 002" high, a bolts that's 004" sloppy can result in the hammer having to move the entire mass of the bolt .004", the firing pin and the primer .002" simultaneously resulting in insufficientenergyto ignitethe primer.

Triggers: Disassemble, check hammer and other parts for out of spec and replace the springs. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 18 2022 at 11:40am
Originally posted by David Milisock David Milisock wrote:

Misfires!  The below instructions are for shooter class rifles only! These instructions have worked on every rifle I've worked on.

There is a word of caution on the web site about after market bolts not being as hard as mil spec bolts. I do not know for sure, I've replaced many and none have broken or wore out yet. If I get a bolt that does not fracture but wears easier than the receiver and does not harm the receiver I'm OK with that. Once a receiver is done so are you.

I have a good bit of experience with commercial cast bolts. The lugs (particularly left) will start to peen almost immediately. Check it for burrs often. The rear will start to mushroom after a couple hundred hammer-blows, maybe sooner. I have never taken one to the point of complete destruction, they will start scaring you much past a few hundred rounds. They can be hardened, but not worth the effort in my view. 500-600 rounds tops is about all I would trust one for. Lightening the hammer spring can help, but not a lot. OK for occasional shooting, but not for a shooter. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 18 2022 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

[QUOTE=David Milisock]Misfires!  The below instructions are for shooter class rifles only! These instructions have worked on every rifle I've worked on.

There is a word of caution on the web site about after market bolts not being as hard as mil spec bolts. I do not know for sure, I've replaced many and none have broken or wore out yet. If I get a bolt that does not fracture but wears easier than the receiver and does not harm the receiver I'm OK with that. Once a receiver is done so are you.


I have a good bit of experience with commercial cast bolts. The lugs (particularly left) will start to peen almost immediately. Check it for burrs often. The rear will start to mushroom after a couple hundred hammer-blows, maybe sooner. I have never taken one to the point of complete destruction, they will start scaring you much past a few hundred rounds. They can be hardened, but not worth the effort in my view. 500-600 rounds tops is about all I would trust one for. Lightening the hammer spring can help, but not a lot. OK for occasional shooting, but not for a shooter. 

I've bought all mine from Sarco, I was put on to them by my gunsmith he said in all his years he never had one come back to him. I've done multiple rifles and I have two of my own well over the 600 round count, one I'm betting into 1,500 + rounds with no problems (so far), they're still snug, I'll keep an eye on them.

I don't know if they make them or what but they fit perfectly.  My Quality Hardware was a bit tight but it's always a bit wonky, my Inland just dropped in and headspace was perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote floydthecat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 18 2022 at 2:50pm
No doubt some are better than others. Some have a hardness only marginally above cookie-dough or modeling clay. Iver Johnson’s start to self destruct on the first trigger pull.
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David Milisock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Milisock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 18 2022 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by floydthecat floydthecat wrote:

No doubt some are better than others. Some have a hardness only marginally above cookie-dough or modeling clay. Iver Johnson’s start to self destruct on the first trigger pull.

Like it or not everything seems made to self destruct today. You need to examine all your moving parts regularly.  The bite is even though you get good parts from a vendor for years it doesn't mean crap tomorrow. The sales model is all web based, programed by space monkeys that know nothing about the product they sell. You don't even get information that could make you willing to pay more.

What I'm always amazed at is that I've never come across a receiver so far out of spec that a new bolt wouldn't fit. My two carbines had replacement bolts, they wore out and I put new bolts in, the bolts are spec and the receivers are tight, 78 years later. These rifles were through two wars before I was born!

I'd love to see an AR that went through WWll, Korea, Vietnam and every Tom Dick and Harry since then type of wear.
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