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New Old Stock Lumb Woodworking Co. Stocks

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carbinekid View Drop Down
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    Posted: Aug 09 2022 at 11:21am
These sold on eBay a week ago. I had been in the running, but got outbid in the final moments. I don’t know if someone here got them, but I didn’t want to let these photos disappear.

These are replacement stocks made by Lumb Woodworking Co. and are still in the original box. The stocks came complete with all metal parts. The buttplates feature the Underwood style checkering.









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abel4287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2022 at 1:15pm
What did they go for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2022 at 2:18pm
They went for $280.99. I'd say someone got a really good deal. Good looking stocks, the diagonal pattern butt plates were interesting to see. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2022 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by W5USMC W5USMC wrote:

They went for $280.99. I'd say someone got a really good deal. Good looking stocks, the diagonal pattern butt plates were interesting to see. 

Lumb made stocks for Underwood, so I don’t find it surprising. I got one identical to these last summer. It also has the Underwood buttplate and recoil plate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abel4287 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2022 at 3:01pm
A really good deal is right!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2022 at 3:44pm
You guys really think those were that great of a deal? I was figuring if you found them loose you’d be lucky to get $150 a piece for an unissued replacement stock. The usual eBay madness seems to have either missed this auction or proved my valuation fairly accurate. If they were from a prime contractor like Winchester it would be a different story in my opinion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W5USMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 09 2022 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by carbinekid carbinekid wrote:

You guys really think those were that great of a deal?

I do, that was $140.50 each for an unissued USGI replacement stock, plus the original box. Especially considering a new made Boyds stock sells for $175 and up. Have you looked at what fulton charges for their new made stocks? Not that I would ever consider buying a new made stock.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt_X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 11 2022 at 12:07pm
I agree.  Fair deal anyway.  Of course it depends on what you wanted the purchase for.  I looked at them to use one as  a replacement, and then sell the second and the box.  I didn't get into the bidding because Lumb is not a first or second choice for what I want, and it already looked like the price wsa going to be at least for what I'd pay for what I really want.  If I was less busy, might have been a different story, but still would have wanted to at least break even when shipping and taxes were all said and done. 

Some of you are better setupto deal with this stuff in a manner similar to people do with trading cards.  By that I mean buying, sorting and storing items that if you don't want, can and will resell.  My room and time is limited and try to limit what I buy to what I want to keep.  I do this understanding that it won't always work out and then can trade or sell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 11 2022 at 9:50pm
P-LW marked recoil plate in the one I took out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 12 2022 at 10:35am
I hope you took some pics Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 12 2022 at 1:48pm
I wonder what time frame the box is from. Some things are neat and other things are coveted, these things are way more on the neat side of the ledger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 12 2022 at 5:05pm
am guessing right at end of war-is not a box--is a sleeve with two stocks in it

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/2043/NIW_LumbSleeve.jpg


--also have a m1a1 replacement in orig box as well and a Saginaw in Saginaw SG marked wrapper,


http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/2043/StockNIW.jpg

then a slightly used Jamestown replacement stock with CC in the slingwell. Collecting things is a disease


Edited by New2brass - Aug 13 2022 at 9:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 13 2022 at 9:50am
Lumb Woodworking supplied stocks to Underwood and IBM as a subcontractor.
Lumb also had contracts directly to Ordnance. What is interesting this included Bren buttstocks.
In February 1945 they received a spares contract for "Carbine Stock Assys" which was completed in June 1945.

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/2043/NIW_LW.jpg

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/2043/NIW_LumbStock.jpg
Notice this is the same drawing and part number as in the post above. The stock and individual parts had a different part number each, this number was for the stock with al the metal.

In 1950 Lumb received government contracts again, but nothing we can tie to the carbine.
In the 60's Lumb again received government contracts. These are not as specific as as earlier contracts.

When the M2 carbine was adopted there were revisions in the stock. Once the new stock was adopted it became the stock used for M1, M2, M3 carbines. The number system had also changed and the new stock assembly was now part number D7267171.

Based on all of this the box of 2 was part of the spares contract and used as a wartime replacement.

Some collect the parts New In Wrap "NIW". This was easier back in the day. The issue with NIW is that you usually do not know what marking is on the part unless you open them. Thankfully guys like Bill Ricca opened these and reported findings which helped the club better understand.
In the case of these stocks in the sleeve we can confirm what we long thought, that the P-LW recoil plates were made by Parker as a subcontractor to Lumb for the stock assemblies.


http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/uploads/2043/NIW_LumbPLW.jpg

As Wayne pointed out, the butt plate is the Underwood plate, it seems that Underwood reciprocated and was a subcontractor to Lumb as well.
The only other question here is, Who supplied the barrel band retainer spring???

Originally posted by carbinekid carbinekid wrote:

Lumb made stocks for Underwood, so I don’t find it surprising. I got one identical to these last summer. It also has the Underwood buttplate and recoil plate.

Was it a .U. or AU recoil plate ? Was it in some sort of wrap or loose?

 



Edited by New2brass - Aug 14 2022 at 10:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 13 2022 at 10:51am
Hmm, one man's corrugated box is another man's corrugated sleeve...I get it now!

I may have skimmed over it, but where on this item does it say anything about Parker?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 13 2022 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:

Hmm, one man's corrugated box is another man's corrugated sleeve...I get it now!

I may have skimmed over it, but where on this item does it say anything about Parker?


http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/underwood-subcontractors-az_topic5317.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 13 2022 at 12:39pm
So, there is no additional proof on these items Marcus ended up that says it's Parker as was inferred? Just because someone had a particular subcontractor doesn't mean eureka! although it could possibly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote welbytwo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 13 2022 at 2:38pm
the eureka moment I guess is when you find the P-LW on a recoil plate in a package that was marked Lumb Woodworking-it just allows us to assume that Parker who produced recoil plates for IBM marked P-RB most likely made the recoil plates marked in same spot P-LW-there is no database that lists who made every part and what all the markings are-this is something the club has spent years on researching records and what members report-we have to assume a lot some times but sometimes we make butts of ourselves in the assumptions-again it takes reporting by collectors of what they find--anytime you have something new from the ww2 period in a package you study it closely-like study the numbers on the Saginaw wrapper and the Lumb sleeve--they are the same-we have to assume made same time period-Dan says Lumb contracts extended past the war, I think saginaws may have also but was for M2 parts for saginaw-interestingly the stock in the RSG wrapper is a M1 stock so that pushed the mfg est back to ww2 in my opinion-one has to apply a bit of logic when guessing what happens-some members do have data that confirms somethings at times so all works out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbinekid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 13 2022 at 3:04pm
Seems to make the most sense that Parker is the maker of these recoil plates for Lumb and IBM.

So what markings are in the sling wells of these stocks? LW?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Carbines? Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2022 at 7:28am
Originally posted by welbytwo welbytwo wrote:

the eureka moment I guess is when you find the P-LW on a recoil plate in a package that was marked Lumb Woodworking-it just allows us to assume that Parker who produced recoil plates for IBM marked P-RB most likely made the recoil plates marked in same spot P-LW-there is no database that lists who made every part and what all the markings are-this is something the club has spent years on researching records and what members report-we have to assume a lot some times but sometimes we make butts of ourselves in the assumptions-again it takes reporting by collectors of what they find--anytime you have something new from the ww2 period in a package you study it closely-like study the numbers on the Saginaw wrapper and the Lumb sleeve--they are the same-we have to assume made same time period-Dan says Lumb contracts extended past the war, I think saginaws may have also but was for M2 parts for saginaw-interestingly the stock in the RSG wrapper is a M1 stock so that pushed the mfg est back to ww2 in my opinion-one has to apply a bit of logic when guessing what happens-some members do have data that confirms somethings at times so all works out


Works for me. BTW, I am not knocking the stocks by any means. Things happen over the decades as most collectors know and chain of custody is often impossible confirm. Overall, extremely neat stuff not to mention rare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote New2brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 14 2022 at 10:33am
@carbinekid, slingwell pic added to above post

Originally posted by Why Carbines? Why Carbines? wrote:

So, there is no additional proof on these items Marcus ended up that says it's Parker as was inferred? Just because someone had a particular subcontractor doesn't mean eureka! although it could possibly.


I look at things with the same thoughts, and there was no eureka.

The Lumb stocks have been observed with the P-LW plates, but they were used and in the probable column. Here we have two band new stocks "NIW" with the same greasy recoil plates. Though not sealed, it is very convincing. Add to the fact that in the past many, including the seller, thought these were post war and could care less.

Should we question the buttplates as being supplied by Underwood? They have the same pattern as those associated with Underwood.
By the same token, when I was putting together the Underwood A-Z I looked at all recoil plates, including the wartime replacements and found a pattern
Leaving out prototypes, prime contractors that made their own recoil plates, or those that were transferred there were
8 know subcontractors that made recoil plates and 4 that were later added with it being questionable if they ever produced or reported. Of those 8 known subcontractors there are 15 plus variations of markings used by the prime contractors.
there are several recoil plates that are believed to to be replacements either directly or for replacement stock sets.

So lets think about this, a company that was making stocks just found out that the prime contractor had its contracts cancelled and got a contract for replacement stocks. Would it be more expedient and cost efficient to get someone new to setup new production or to reach out to one of the contractors already making that item? Remember that Lumb filled its replacement stock set contract in under 5 months.

In comparing all recoil plates you will find machining patterns are different between the subcontractors. Can the machining patterns be used just like the dimples of the buttplates?

I welcome anyone to do the same comparison independently, and then we can compare notes.
 I welcome findings that differ or maybe something I missed.



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