Blondie and Dagwood's daughter Daisy
Printed From: The Carbine Collector's Club
Category: The Club
Forum Name: Carbines of the Collectors
Forum Description: Share Your Carbine
URL: http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6212
Printed Date: Apr 16 2024 at 8:25am
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Topic: Blondie and Dagwood's daughter Daisy
Posted By: Da1Chief
Subject: Blondie and Dagwood's daughter Daisy
Date Posted: May 24 2022 at 8:02pm
   Went yesterday to my local gun dealer and picked up my 3RD IBM
Carbine since October of last year. I purchased
it from an individual in Washington State through GB auction. IBM AO S/N 38442XX. Has a Sexy High Wood BR-B Stock and nice Cartouche. I downloaded the pictures from GB and examined them well. Spoke to the owner and tried to do my research and found him to be an upstanding individual in his community. So, I decided to bid and was lucky enough to win.
I have no
information of the history, but I can tell it has been taken care of. I haven’t had time to break it down and do a
complete inspection on it but so far, the external markings seem to be correct
for a December 1943 to Early January 1944 riffle from IBM. Has IBM Barrel (No Date or Bomb) Has the
small “P” about 5 inches down from the Front Sight which is marked with “N”. Push Button Safety with “EPB”. Rear Flip Sight without any markings on right
side and “S” on the Left Side. Butt
Plate is also IBM. 6 dimples across top,
4 dimples left of screw hole, 5 full rows of dimples below screw hole before
they step down 1 dimple, and 4 dimples on the bottom row. As you all know My First one was Blondie, My Second was Dagwood, so here is their daughter. Here are a few pictures of “Daisy”. (Then name Alexander just didn't work for me )Very respectively, Da1Chief ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Replies:
Posted By: pickax
Date Posted: May 24 2022 at 8:22pm
|
Beautiful IBM, mine is a mixer but also such a nice shooter. Wasn't Daisy the dog, and Tootsie the daughter? I haven't googled it, but no matter. Nice family anyway to name them !
------------- Brad |
Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: May 24 2022 at 9:01pm
| I'd be interested in pictures of both sides of the flip sight. |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: May 25 2022 at 3:21pm
|
You are completely correct in the dogs name WAS Daisy. I guess my memory is just not what it was back in the day I was correct that the son’s name was Alexander Their daughters name was put out as a name the baby contest and the winning name was Cookie Neither the Alexander or the Cookie name really work for me as something to call a riffle. So, I’m going to have to come up with something else ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: 1st M1 88
Date Posted: May 25 2022 at 4:06pm
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Really nice looking I.B.M. you have there. |
Posted By: Smokpole
Date Posted: May 26 2022 at 11:05am
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A hit or two from that carbine will have you "pushin' up Daisies"! ------------- OGCA Life member NRA Life member Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: May 31 2022 at 7:19pm
Sorry for the delayed response, was with family in South Carolina for the holiday and got home yesterday evening. I will try to get some pictures posted up this week. (Especially the Rear Flip Sight as requested) All of the pictures I currently have are from the previous owner. I plan to take a full HD set of pictures. That way, anyone who wishes can look closely at which ever portion of the riffle they wish. I have no idea how much space we are allowed to upload pictures so I will try to make the first photos of the general areas and upload specific portions upon request. ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
GotSnlB28 wrote:Posted By: New2brass
Date Posted: May 31 2022 at 8:12pm
You have plenty of space ------------- http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html" rel="nofollow - Club Survey Saginaw Receivers |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 01 2022 at 6:47am
|
Thank you, sir, I had no idea and didn't want to offend anyone by taking up too much room on the server. Very respectfully, Da1Chief ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 01 2022 at 8:15pm
Start out with the pictures of the Rear Sights, as requested and promised. Please give Honest Opinion. I would rather know the truth than live in a Dream. Is it real or a Reproduction?  Back of Rear Sight Short Leaf  Rear Sight Front Short Leaf  Rear Sight Back Long Leaf  Rear Sight Front Long Leaf  Rear Sight Right - Unmarked  Rear Sight Left - S Marking ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: Jun 01 2022 at 10:35pm
| Thanks for posting the additional photos. Sorry to say this, but the rear sight is a repro. And I can see the signs of adjustable sight staking. |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 02 2022 at 5:15am
Thank You Sir ! Like I said I would rather know the truth. I prefer the Red Pill, Not the Blue Pill  Very respectively, Da1Chief ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: Jun 02 2022 at 7:17am
|
I remember looking at this one. @Da1Chief take a close look on the bevel of the receiver forward of the rear sight dovetail. Possibly some previous markings ground off; I noted that along with absence of machining marks and punch mark in that area; from what could be seen in auction photos. Suspect the barreled receiver was refinished together at some point. Does the finish on barrel and receiver match?  FWIW I would have expected an 11-43 dated barrel, for that AO serial. IBM undated barrels with flat muzzle crown profile is typically seen late 12-43 into early 44 production before IBM changed to the rounded crown profile. Of course with AO IBM receivers and carbines in general; anything is possible. I also noted the repop flip and the odd fitment into the dovetail.  |
Posted By: eb in oregon
Date Posted: Jun 03 2022 at 1:26pm
That's not really an "odd fitment" of the sight, that's a machining error that didn't disqualify the receiver. To cut dovetails such as that an end-mill cuts out the majority of the dovetail slot and then a key cutter finishes the slot by cutting the dovetail. It appears the receiver wasn't located flat and on an angle and the end-mill cut out of square. As the dovetail secures the sight front and back the uneven base doesn't affect the sights security.
------------- "You are what you do when it counts." |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 04 2022 at 10:25am
|
Wow !!! I must have looked at the rear sight over a
dozen times and didn’t see anything as to the fitment (Big Smile). I have only been learning about carbines
since I got Blondie back in October of last year (2021). I understand enough about them to know I don’t
know a DARN thing when it comes to the details of authenticity of the
individual parts and pieces. That is why
I keep saying that I want opinions and the truth. To borrow from the movie MATRIX, I choose the
Red Pill not the Blue one. If I am going
to learn I need to know what to look for. To answer ncin1911’s question, The Receiver and Barrel both have a "Dark Green Tint" to them when held under a bright LED Flashlight. To my untrained/layman eyes they appear to be about the same color but I am sure that someone here may see a difference in the colors. I just don’t know the correct words or how to explain it properly. Additionally, I used my “Bore Gauge” to see how good or bad the barrel was. It was slightly over the 05 line. That seems a little odd for the age of the riffle and I suspect there was a barrel swap with a newer IBM barrel somewhere in its past (you will see pictures when I post them up). It would also explain why there is no Date or Bomb on the barrel. I will also include additional pictures of the Receiver just forward of the rear sights as requested by ncin1911. I looked at the area with my 69yr old eyes under a magnifying glass and can not see any area that appears to have been ground down or any attempt to remove markings or anything like that. Pictures will be posted when I can resize them down from my camera to what is acceptable for upload to the forum. My sincere thanks to everyone for their comments and I accept them fully. without any reservation or ill feeling to anyone. Again my honest and humble Thank You ! Very respectfully, Da1Chief (Sandy to my Friends) ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: Jun 04 2022 at 12:31pm
|
It's probably just fine Sandy; was just notes I had made going by photos provided in the listing. Photos can exaggerate small details or leave a lot to be desired. I certainly have paid up several times taking a chance and getting educated along the way; just like everyone else here. I ain't scared to go down the Rabbit hole; sometimes you get lucky.
P.S. I.B.M. Corp. are the best ones and don't let anyone tell you any different.   Looking forward to more pics. Best Dave |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 04 2022 at 1:27pm
|
[QUOTE=ncin1911]I remember looking at this one. @Da1Chief take a close look on the bevel of the receiver forward of the rear sight dovetail. Possibly some previous markings ground off; I noted that along with absence of machining marks and punch mark in that area; from what could be seen in auction photos. Suspect the barreled receiver was refinished together at some point. Does the finish on barrel and receiver match? Belive me when I say that I would rather have an educated guess from you and the other experts here than my "Ricky Recruit" opinion. Heck, I'm still to the point of when I put the Hammer Pin and Spring back in, I go into the tub and pull the shower curtin closed so when I launch it, I can still find the parts (Huge Laugh). Sad but it is True... Dave, as promised I'll start my pictures dealing with the pictures you requested.     ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 04 2022 at 1:55pm
I will start the General Tour with the Right Side.
   Look at that Sexy High Wood  Now the Left Side      Now for the Top Down View       Last but not Least the Bottom View     This concludes the exterior tour. Internal tour will commence next week. ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 04 2022 at 2:08pm
|
My 4 major concerns with the exterior are as follows. 1. Very Minor "Tight" Hairline Crack in wood right behind Recoil Plate. (Of Course No Crack is Minor) 2. Front Barrel Band - Can not remember if it is 3 or 4 welds for the Type 2. (My memory says 4) 3. Front Barrel Band - The Double Slash Marking is almost sideways, shouldn't they be more vertical? 4. Front Sight is marked "N" - It is my understanding the the "N" was used early Production not in the Dec 43 Timeframe Other that those 4 items I am very happy with it. Comments and oposing viewpoints requested Very respectfully, Da1Chief (Sandy) ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: ncin1911
Date Posted: Jun 05 2022 at 8:54am
|
RE: "My 4 major concerns with the exterior are as follows."
The barrel appears to have a long skirt, flat muzzle crown and is undated. Would expect to have a T-1 narrow band and be mated to an IBM or IBM/A0 marked receiver that lands in the mid 12-43 to early 1-44 production timeframe. The T-2 band usage by IBM starts showing up in late 1-44 production on short skirt round muzzle crown barrels. This IBM/AO serial number would be expected to show up in the 11-43 production timeframe. Not gospel for AO marked receivers however. IBM barrel dates track closely with their assembly timeframe. A company that was all about the numbers.   The stock is great and would be expected/correct for that receiver. Take a look at this one, not too far from yours; try to ignore Bubba's handy work. The link in the first post should take you to the photo album. Warning; I like taking pictures of my IBM's. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/topic5012.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/topic5012.html |
Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: Jun 05 2022 at 11:18am
| I don't see a picture with the crack, but hairline cracks from the recoil plate are common. If you plan to shoot the rifle, there should be a hair gap between the recoil plate tang in the back from the wood. If you post up a picture it would help assess. |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 05 2022 at 11:49am
OH Crap... Thought I had included the Picture of the "Hairline Crack"  I get a Black Eye for that one.Anyway here it is...  Again, I'm sorry that I left it out of the other pictures. Was just in a hurry to get them posted, I simply didn't relize I had left it out.. Very respectively, Da1Chief ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: Matt_X
Date Posted: Jun 05 2022 at 11:58am
|
Looks like a repair already done with two brass pins and possibly glue. Probably good to go. |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 05 2022 at 12:34pm
|
Thank You Sir, I want to fill up the small holes there but not sure what to use, but that is a low priority for now. ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: Jun 05 2022 at 12:44pm
| If you plan to shoot it, I might relieve a tiny bit of wood at the rear of the recoil plate. I use a dowel with fine sandpaper wrapped around it. It only needs to be a hair gap and if you're careful it will not get the wood out of shape or be noticeable. I only do this on shooters, not collector grade stocks which I do not shoot, after learning my lesson the hard way. |
Posted By: Da1Chief
Date Posted: Jun 05 2022 at 12:54pm
|
FWIW; The barrel appears to have a long skirt, flat muzzle crown
and is undated. Would expect to have a T-1 narrow band and be mated to an IBM
or IBM/A0 marked receiver that lands in the mid 12-43 to early 1-44 production
timeframe. This
IBM/AO serial number would be expected to show up in the 11-43 production
timeframe. Not gospel for AO marked receivers however. IBM
barrel dates track closely with their assembly timeframe. A company that was
all about the numbers. The stock
is great and would be expected/correct for that receiver. Take a
look at this one, not too far from yours; try to ignore Bubba's handy work. The
link in the first post should take you to the photo album. Warning; I like
taking pictures of my IBM's. http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/topic5012.html" rel="nofollow - 1. The Barrel Does in fact have a Long Skirt, I assume that the Long Skirt without a date is common and not an issue that I should be worried about. 2. Thank
You for setting my mind at rest about the type 2 Band markings being askew. 3. I
agree the Type 2 band is out of place according to the timeframe of the serial
number, I may look at replacing it with a type 1 that has the proper KVB
marking on the swivel. However, to find a "Real One" is insanely
expensive. 4. Yes, I looked at you pictures. Very Nice Weapons. Helps me study them and know what to look for in the future (Thank You). Yes, I agree you like taking pictures of your IBMs. (Big Smile) Very respectively, Da1Chief ------------- Very respectfully, Da1Chief DPC,RMC,ITC(SW) USN Retired |
Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Jun 05 2022 at 10:32pm
Can you tell us how you can easily tell this one is a repro? Is it the lack of machining marks ?
|
Posted By: GotSnlB28
Date Posted: Jun 06 2022 at 7:59am
Milling is one characteristic to look at, there are many more. The best thing is to look at known good examples and pick out all the details that arent consistent. With this one there are multiple. |
Posted By: Rebel92
Date Posted: Jun 06 2022 at 10:23am
| Okay, I will take a gander. Hope I dont compare it to another REPRO :) |
Posted By: Smokpole
Date Posted: Jun 06 2022 at 7:55pm
|
Once you've seen several originals, you won't have any problem spotting repros. ------------- OGCA Life member NRA Life member Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member |