Click on the image above to learn more about the M1 Carbine
|
Prototype Oilers? |
Post Reply |
Author | |
carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: Sep 15 2022 at 2:11pm |
A while back I saved a photo that was posted of a nickel plated oiler that was said to be a prototype piece. It was stamped with an “I” on top of the cap. Now just this week I saw another identical oiler on eBay, this time with a “0” stamped on top.
Anyone know the real story on these? Edited by newsman3 - Nov 29 2022 at 9:31am |
|
W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I also saw that O marked oiler the other day, had me wondering also. As far as the oiler with the I on top check out CCNL 169, it is mentioned in a "spotters report". Also check out the picture of Winchester's 2nd prototype on pages 34 and 35 of War Baby, it shows an oiler that looks similar to these.
|
|
Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
|
welbytwo
Hard Corps Advanced Collector Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 802 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Nenel3 from france had box of the O marked ones couple years back--I have the I marked one and also bought one of the O marked ones he was selling--identical just different letters
|
|
W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So, what are they really Marcus? Prototypes? Or for something else.
|
|
Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
|
welbytwo
Hard Corps Advanced Collector Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 802 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
if were prototypes they would have been marked for winchester I would think as Humeston and puglesy had patents for the stock oiler cut and the large head oiler-I was in contact with Humestons grandson who remembers playing with the large head oilers at his grandfathers house but he could never find any of them-I have fotos of the patent-not sure which book was in-my guess is simply a oiler for something else and they then made stock work for it-the foto of patent shows head different to boot
|
|
welbytwo
Hard Corps Advanced Collector Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 802 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
and we keep forgetting a nickled plated oiler would stick out and cause flashes giving a soldiers position away
|
|
Sawbones
On Point Joined: Mar 04 2022 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 150 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I bought a QHMC a few months ago came w/ a nickled oiler stamped w/ circled IS. Presumably International Silver. Have 2 NOS 15 rnd mags stamped IS I took out of the cosmoline paper.
|
|
"I think youngsters need to start thinking about what kind of world they will leave for me and Keith Richards". Willie Nelson
|
|
New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The following are Marcus' pictures
Both O and I have been observed. note the end of the dipper. Lets look at the Humeston patent. Look at the end of the dipper. It is shaped like the USGI dipper note the red arrow showing near the top of the oiler is a washer type part. The hole is just a little bigger then the dipper. This would prevent all the oil from spilling out. It also gives a surface area for the leather washer to create a gasket so oil does not leak out. What the auction pictures above do not show is the opening of the oiler. It is just a tube, no dipper hole or washer. Marcus had pointed out the nickel color may attract attention. Some would say the British had nickel oilers, but they were not in the side of the stock. next is the fitment in the I-cut Notice how it sits proud at the cap. I doubt a sling would fit around it. Winchester I-cut stocks had deeper end cuts, so it may have fit better? If a prototype then why do these pop up from time to time? How would a box wind up in the hands of a French surplus dealer? I am not saying this is not an oiler of some sort, but skeptical if this is the Humeston oiler in the patent. There is another thread where I posted the newsletters and more info. If anyone finds that post please link it here. |
|
New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
As to the Humeston oiler,
This is a picture of the Winchester Caliber .30 Light Rifle with the prototype oiler anyone have any other observations?
|
|
jangle
On Point Joined: Jan 13 2016 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 146 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Just stating the obvious between the Humeston prototype with the raised slotted end cap for screwdriver/rimmed cartridge slot vs Marcus' oiler.
As Dan mentions in the photo of the .30 light rifle, it seems to show the glimmer of the shining raised end cap of the Humeston prototype oiler. Maybe another revised patent drawing out there somewhere of these flat capped O & I oilers? |
|
New2brass
Moderator Group Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4627 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The US Krag rifles had similar oilers that fit in the end of the buttstock. I am not sure of the diameter, but the length is over 3 inches while the M1 carbine oiler is about an inch shorter. Krag Oiler Carbine Oiler Note the tip of the carbine oiler above and the Krag below. The threaded portion of the Krag appears to be smaller Take a look at how the oiler opening is smaller than the diameter of the tube. Below look how the carbine oiler tube is just threaded. The tube if flared making it look thicker than it is. This is to give the gasket some surface area to seal. Oiler caps and seals below. Krag on the left. Carbine on the right. Though they are scaled to each other it is unknown to me if they have the same diameter caps. Looking online at Krag oilers I see they had several different knurls to them. Maybe it is possible that in pre-production that ordnance had some short Krag oilers made up, or maybe there was a short oiler that was used for the Krag. If anyone has a Krag oiler it would be appreciated if you can take some measurements. |
|
Dirty30Carbine
On Point Joined: Aug 24 2019 Location: Chester Status: Offline Points: 214 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
I recently purchased both the I and O marked off an Ebay auction, came to $31 shipped. I plan to post photos when I have a chance
|
|
David Albert
Hard Corps Status Quo Challenger Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 1003 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
[QUOTE=New2brass] I noticed Edwin Pugsley is listed as an inventor on the oiler patent. That name should be familiar here. In my personal collection, I have his business card, and some correspondence with him associated with the Hyde 35 Submachine Gun. (aka ABC Automatic Hand Machine Gun) At the time, he was Vice President of Winchester, before he became CEO. David Albert dalbert@sturmgewehr.com |
|
NRA Life Member
Past Pres., The American Thompson Association Amer. Society of Arms Collectors OGCA/TCA/Carbine Club/GCA/IAA SAR Writer Author - The Many Firearm Designs of Eugene Reising Eagle Scout |
|
W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
When you receive them, I am very curious to know what it looks like may have been in the one that has the "I" on top. From the pictures that were on ebay it looked like it may have once contained ink.
|
|
Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
|
Dirty30Carbine
On Point Joined: Aug 24 2019 Location: Chester Status: Offline Points: 214 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I received them a couple days ago. I’ll take a much better look at them when I get home today
|
|
carbinekid
On Point Joined: Jan 24 2016 Location: SE Michigan Status: Offline Points: 438 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So another one of these mystery oilers has surfaced. Same as the others posted, but with unmarked cap. I personally doubt these have anything to do with carbines and the similarity is purely coincidental.
|
|
W5USMC
Moderator Group Joined: Apr 29 2017 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 2949 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
+1
|
|
Wayne
USMC Retired NRA Life Member |
|
Smokpole
Hard Corps Joined: Oct 21 2019 Location: Madison ohio Status: Offline Points: 1052 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'm wondering if these aren't oilers for British Enfields.
|
|
OGCA Life member
NRA Life member Ashtabula Rod and Gun Life member |
|
Post Reply | |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum |