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Serial Numbers to Look for and Report |
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Lupus Dei ![]() Hard Corps ![]() ![]() Club Secretary Emeritus Joined: Nov 09 2015 Location: CCC Status: Offline Points: 1417 |
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March 2016-G
SERIAL NUMBERS TO LOOK FOR AND REPORT
While collectors have learned much over the years about the quantities and variations of carbines and related accessories that were produced, more can still be learned in some areas. At the end of 2015 the Carbine Club had on record over 75,000 carbine serial numbers that had been reported from various sources. This is not a large sample of the total carbine production, but is enough to give a general picture of the usage of serial numbers and the scarcity of some carbines. It is recognized that most carbine contracts were terminated before the contractors used all the serial numbers they had been assigned. Some contractors apparently skipped groups of numbers within a serial number block, for undocumented reasons. Below is a list showing the serial number ranges where no numbers have been reported, or the information is too scant or may be erroneous.
In addition to the serial number ranges shown above, there are
other things that can be watched for and reported to help expand and
improve the knowledge base. Unusual receiver markings, such as
letters in the serial number area on the receiver, or names lined
out, should be reported even though the carbine might be a
"mixmaster". Rare models, such as those marked T3 or T4,
and experimental or presentation carbines should be reported. Fakes
are common, and repro parts, including barrels, barrel bands, flip
sights, etc. are readily available. If possible, get photos of rare
items.
Carbine Club Newsletter 357 features a comprehensive in-depth statistical analysis of all serial number ranges, the result of more than 30 years of data collecting by members, and written by J.B. Powers. In my opinion, it is the most significant series of articles ever published by anyone on carbine production, in regards to serial numbers used and quantities produced.
former Carbine Club Newsletter Editor
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Louis Dey
Admin www.uscarbinecal30.com/forums |
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newsman3 ![]() newsmen ![]() Joined: Apr 04 2019 Status: Offline Points: 28 |
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(OSS) Office of Strategic Services Carbines 30 October 1943, 12 National Postal Meter carbines with 24 magazines were shipped from the OSS Supply Division, Washington D.C. to Lt. George Bookbinder, Room 2133 in the OSS "Q" Building Washington, D.C. The same shipment also included: 13 M191a1 pistols with holsters, 29 magazines, 13 pistol belts, 13 M1928 double magazine pockets. 13 Thompson M1928, M2 sub machine guns, 104 magazines and 3 sets of spares. Carbine Serial Numbers
1505587 1519675 1520545 1523234 1523414 1524000 1524096 1524276 1524376 1524457 1525843 1945011 It is unknown where these carbines went from there. If you have one of these carbines let us know for more information! |
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Rcycles45 ![]() On Point ![]() ![]() Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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I have Rock-Ola 16728xx that seems to be in the range listed . This rifle is the highest serial # range that I have ever seen for springtube variation ..
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New2brass ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4324 |
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Rcycles,
Fantastic, love hearing about something not previously reported Is that a type 2?Have you submitted a data sheet? |
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Rcycles45 ![]() On Point ![]() ![]() Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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This is a type 1 variation B springtube . I will be submitting a data sheet on it . |
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Marty Black ![]() Moderator Group ![]() Editor in Chief Emeritus Joined: Dec 30 2015 Location: Pismo Beach, CA Status: Offline Points: 100261 |
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Thanks Rcycles45 ! I'd love to see a photo of the serial number as well as the right side of the receiver (the spring tube area). Your report is the first one received on these "missing" serial numbers! Thanks much!
If the barrel is dated, we'd like to have that information also. Regards, Marty Black |
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Marty Black
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Rcycles45 ![]() On Point ![]() ![]() Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Marty here are some pictures , Barrel is dated 3-43 . If you need any other pics just let me know . I'm still working on trying do resize pics to upload here .
http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/rcycles45/library/1672810%20Rock-Ola |
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Marty Black ![]() Moderator Group ![]() Editor in Chief Emeritus Joined: Dec 30 2015 Location: Pismo Beach, CA Status: Offline Points: 100261 |
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Thanks Rcyles! Great pics, fantastic early Rock-Ola carbine! Certainly the nicest early RMC I've ever seen...and I lived in the Chicago area for over 30 years!
And thanks for helping us fine-tune the transition from T2 to T3 receivers. You've helped us fill in another little piece of the production puzzle. Yet, we've still got about 3500 "missing" numbers higher than your's, before the T3s are first reported. We'll have to keep looking and reporting. I would strongly encourage you to do a Featured Carbine on this gun for the benefit of the forum members. That carbine is full of very rare parts, and we can learn a lot from it. Say, does the stock have the little cut-out on the inside to accommodate the little tab on the type 1 spring tube? See the Featured Carbine QHMC 4645574 if you are not sure what I'm talking about. I suspect it does, since your photos showed the type 1 tab facing downward. Great posting of pics, thanks! Fantastic carbine! Regards, Marty Black |
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Marty Black
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Rcycles45 ![]() On Point ![]() ![]() Joined: Dec 27 2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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SSNPingjockey ![]() On Point ![]() ![]() Joined: Mar 07 2020 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 224 |
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Underwood-B (Singer) 2683573 was on GB not long ago. It was a mix-master with an Underwood barrel, but date of barrel was not listed or legible in photos.
UPDATE 2/7/21: I had written down in my notes that the barrel on this B carbine was “unknown”, but at the time I wrote this post, thought I recalled that it was an Underwood based on a photo from the side of the barrel. Dan actually had a copy of the GB posting that went through to the end of the auction which did have a photo of the top of the barrel. The barrel was, in fact, a Winchester with stamped “W” and Winchester stamped barrel cartouche.
Edited by SSNPingjockey - Feb 07 2021 at 1:40pm |
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Chad
USN Retired |
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New2brass ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4324 |
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Good Reporting, 5 points!
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jackp1028 ![]() Hard Corps ![]() ![]() Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1207 |
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I found an Underwood WTA, serial number 2405154 on the S/N Spread Sheet. It's CMP completed auction listing #1790.
https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=1790&n=M1-Carbine-Underwood-WTA-Code-Double-Stamped-SN-2405154 |
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JackP
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jackp1028 ![]() Hard Corps ![]() ![]() Joined: Jan 01 2016 Location: Cloudcroft, NM Status: Offline Points: 1207 |
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Marcus, do you still have Underwood to Winchester (W) serial number 2491972 in your collection? That's in the "Contract Terminated" range.
Edit to Add: Marcus replied with a gallery of 92 photos! |
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JackP
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Connor38 ![]() Recruit ![]() Joined: Dec 14 2019 Location: Nevada Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I just got what has so far been objectively believed to be an as issued 5.855 mil S.G. Carbine. I’ve posted on cmp and usmilitaria. I have not completely stripped it down and photographed it but I will when I’m back home. I hope what I find will help out with some of the missing data.
Edit: well I just scanned the list again and it appears my serial number is just shy of what we’re looking for!
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New2brass ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4324 |
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Connor,
5mil, nice! I keep missing out on one for my collection. Any info on a possible original is good info, please do submit a datasheet. These can be found in the forum section that says datasheets. There is a current thread talking about slingwell markings where your info would be appreciated. |
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Connor38 ![]() Recruit ![]() Joined: Dec 14 2019 Location: Nevada Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I did see that and I do recall a number in my sling well. When I’m back home, likely for 4th of July, I’ll strip her down and do a thorough analysis.
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blackfish ![]() On Point ![]() ![]() Joined: Mar 30 2016 Location: 999-0 Status: Offline Points: 287 |
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5834657 mixmaster here, barrel appears original, proofed both by Winchester (WP) and Saginaw (P).
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Billy Fort ![]() Guest Group ![]() |
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My RECEIVER IS 2491995 with an small W on rear of receiver, bought it just a reciever and I'm building a gun around it.
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New2brass ![]() Moderator Group ![]() ![]() Dan Pinto, Photo Editor Joined: Nov 29 2015 Location: CT Status: Offline Points: 4324 |
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Billy, you need to log in, you are posting as a guest. No way to send you info. Is there a flaming bomb or a circle around the W?
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Billy Fort ![]() Guest Group ![]() |
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no bomb or circle
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Abel4287 ![]() Recruit ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 16 2021 Location: Toledo Status: Offline Points: 90 |
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I acquired Inland 1652 from Midway USA barrel dated 6-42
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USMC 2111
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