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Serial Numbers to Look for and Report
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    Posted: Mar 04 2016 at 12:24am
March 2016-G

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SERIAL NUMBERS TO LOOK FOR AND REPORT

While collectors have learned much over the years about the quantities and variations of carbines and related accessories that were produced, more can still be learned in some areas. At the end of 2015 the Carbine Club had on record over 75,000 carbine serial numbers that had been reported from various sources. This is not a large sample of the total carbine production, but is enough to give a general picture of the usage of serial numbers and the scarcity of some carbines. It is recognized that most carbine contracts were terminated before the contractors used all the serial numbers they had been assigned. Some contractors apparently skipped groups of numbers within a serial number block, for undocumented reasons. Below is a list showing the serial number ranges where no numbers have been reported, or the information is too scant or may be erroneous.

 

 

 

 

 

 
In addition to the serial number ranges shown above, there are other things that can be watched for and reported to help expand and improve the knowledge base. Unusual receiver markings, such as letters in the serial number area on the receiver, or names lined out, should be reported even though the carbine might be a "mixmaster". Rare models, such as those marked T3 or T4, and experimental or presentation carbines should be reported. Fakes are common, and repro parts, including barrels, barrel bands, flip sights, etc. are readily available. If possible, get photos of rare items.

J.B. Powers                                  

Carbine Club Newsletter 357 features a comprehensive in-depth statistical analysis of all serial number ranges, the result of more than 30 years of data collecting by members, and written by J.B. Powers. In my opinion, it is the most significant series of articles ever published by anyone on carbine production, in regards to serial numbers used and quantities produced.

Marty Black                                          

former Carbine Club Newsletter Editor
 

 

                           
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(OSS) Office of Strategic Services Carbines

30 October 1943, 12 National Postal Meter carbines with 24 magazines were shipped from the OSS Supply Division, Washington D.C. to Lt. George Bookbinder, Room 2133 in the OSS "Q" Building Washington, D.C.

The same shipment also included:
13 M191a1 pistols with holsters, 29 magazines, 13 pistol belts, 13 M1928 double magazine pockets.
13 Thompson M1928, M2 sub machine guns, 104 magazines and 3 sets of spares.

Carbine Serial Numbers
1505587
1519675
1520545
1523234
1523414
1524000
1524096
1524276
1524376
1524457
1525843
1945011

It is unknown where these carbines went from there.

If you have one of these carbines let us know for more information!
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I have Rock-Ola 16728xx that seems to be in the range listed . This rifle is the highest serial # range that I have ever seen for springtube variation ..
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Rcycles,
Fantastic, love hearing about something not previously reported
Is that a type 2?
Have you submitted a data sheet?
 
 
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Points: 156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rcycles45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 06 2016 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:


Rcycles,
Fantastic, love hearing about something not previously reported
Is that a type 2?
Have you submitted a data sheet?
 
 

This is a type 1 variation B springtube . I will be submitting a data sheet on it .
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Points: 100261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marty Black Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 11 2016 at 4:15am
Thanks Rcycles45 ! I'd love to see a photo of the serial number as well as the right side of the receiver (the spring tube area). Your report is the first one received on these "missing" serial numbers! Thanks much!

If the barrel is dated, we'd like to have that information also.

Regards, Marty Black
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Marty here are some pictures , Barrel is dated 3-43 . If you need any other pics just let me know . I'm still working on trying do resize pics to upload here .

http://s1176.photobucket.com/user/rcycles45/library/1672810%20Rock-Ola
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Thanks Rcyles! Great pics, fantastic early Rock-Ola carbine! Certainly the nicest early RMC I've ever seen...and I lived in the Chicago area for over 30 years!

And thanks for helping us fine-tune the transition from T2 to T3 receivers. You've helped us fill in another little piece of the production puzzle. Yet, we've still got about 3500 "missing" numbers higher than your's, before the T3s are first reported. We'll have to keep looking and reporting.

I would strongly encourage you to do a Featured Carbine on this gun for the benefit of the forum members. That carbine is full of very rare parts, and we can learn a lot from it.

Say, does the stock have the little cut-out on the inside to accommodate the little tab on the type 1 spring tube? See the Featured Carbine QHMC 4645574 if you are not sure what I'm talking about. I suspect it does, since your photos showed the type 1 tab facing downward.

Great posting of pics, thanks! Fantastic carbine!

Regards, Marty Black

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Points: 156 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rcycles45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 23 2016 at 3:26pm
Originally posted by Marty Black Marty Black wrote:

Thanks Rcyles! Great pics, fantastic early Rock-Ola carbine! Certainly the nicest early RMC I've ever seen...and I lived in the Chicago area for over 30 years!

And thanks for helping us fine-tune the transition from T2 to T3 receivers. You've helped us fill in another little piece of the production puzzle. Yet, we've still got about 3500 "missing" numbers higher than your's, before the T3s are first reported. We'll have to keep looking and reporting.

I would strongly encourage you to do a Featured Carbine on this gun for the benefit of the forum members. That carbine is full of very rare parts, and we can learn a lot from it.

Say, does the stock have the little cut-out on the inside to accommodate the little tab on the type 1 spring tube? See the Featured Carbine QHMC 4645574 if you are not sure what I'm talking about. I suspect it does, since your photos showed the type 1 tab facing downward.

Great posting of pics, thanks! Fantastic carbine!

Regards, Marty Black

Thanks Marty , Glad I could help out , like I said I haven't come across a Rock-Ola springtube receiver with a higher serial number then this one .This carbine has been restored some what and yes the stock has the spring tube notch cut out .

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Underwood-B (Singer) 2683573 was on GB not long ago.  It was a mix-master with an Underwood barrel, but date of barrel was not listed or legible in photos.

UPDATE 2/7/21:  I had written down in my notes that the barrel on this B carbine was “unknown”, but at the time I wrote this post, thought I recalled that it was an Underwood based on a photo from the side of the barrel.  Dan actually had a copy of the GB posting that went through to the end of the auction which did have a photo of the top of the barrel.  The barrel was, in fact, a Winchester with stamped “W” and Winchester stamped barrel cartouche.




Edited by SSNPingjockey - Feb 07 2021 at 1:40pm
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Good Reporting, 5 points!
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I found an Underwood WTA, serial number 2405154 on the S/N Spread Sheet. It's CMP completed auction listing #1790.

https://cmpauction.thecmp.org/detail.asp?id=1790&n=M1-Carbine-Underwood-WTA-Code-Double-Stamped-SN-2405154
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Marcus, do you still have Underwood to Winchester (W) serial number 2491972 in your collection? That's in the "Contract Terminated" range.



Edit to Add: Marcus replied with a gallery of 92 photos!
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I just got what has so far been objectively believed to be an as issued 5.855 mil S.G. Carbine. I’ve posted on cmp and usmilitaria. I have not completely stripped it down and photographed it but I will when I’m back home. I hope what I find will help out with some of the missing data. 

Edit: well I just scanned the list again and it appears my serial number is just shy of what we’re looking for! 
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Connor,
5mil, nice! I keep missing out on one for my collection.

Any info on a possible original is good info, please do submit a datasheet.
These can be found in the forum section that says datasheets.

There is a current thread talking about slingwell markings where your info would be appreciated. 
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Originally posted by New2brass New2brass wrote:

Connor,
5mil, nice! I keep missing out on one for my collection.

Any info on a possible original is good info, please do submit a datasheet.
These can be found in the forum section that says datasheets.

There is a current thread talking about slingwell markings where your info would be appreciated. 

I did see that and I do recall a number in my sling well. When I’m back home, likely for 4th of July, I’ll strip her down and do a thorough analysis. 
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5834657 mixmaster here, barrel appears original, proofed both by Winchester (WP) and Saginaw (P).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Billy Fort Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 27 2021 at 3:54pm
My  RECEIVER IS 2491995 with an small W on rear of receiver, bought it just a reciever and I'm building a gun around it.
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Billy, you need to log in, you are posting as a guest. No way to send you info.

Is there a flaming bomb or a circle around the W?
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no bomb or circle
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I acquired Inland 1652 from Midway USA barrel dated 6-42
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